The International Science Council and its Member, the China Association for Science and Technology (CAST), in partnership with Nature, are launching a new six-part podcast series exploring the evolving landscape of research careers. Across the series, early- and mid-career researchers will be in conversation with senior scientists, sharing experiences of growth, collaboration, and resilience in the face of rapid change.
Each episode highlights both the opportunities and the pressures shaping scientific careers today. From managing global collaborations and integrating new technologies, to balancing interdisciplinary work and societal expectations, the series provides practical insights into the skills and perspectives needed to thrive in a science career.
In the first episode, science journalist Izzie Clarke speaks with Professor Robbert Dijkgraaf, theoretical physicist and President-elect of the ISC, and Professor Baojing Gu of Zhejiang University. Together, they discuss the accelerating pace of change in research – from AI and big data to global collaboration – and reflect on how early-career scientists can turn these challenges into opportunities.
Listeners will gain perspectives on navigating international collaboration, building lifelong professional networks, and finding a personal compass in the midst of a shifting academic environment.
Host: Izzie Clarke, Science journalist
Guests: Professor Robbert Dijkgraaf (Theoretical physicist, President-elect of the ISC) and Professor Baojing Gu (Environmental and resource Management, Zhejiang University).
[00:01] Izzie Clarke
Hello and welcome. I’m science journalist Izzie Clarke and in this podcast series, presented in partnership with the International Science Council, with the support of the China Association for Science and Technology, we’ll be exploring the changing scientific landscape for early- and mid-career researchers – and how best to navigate it.
Today, I’m joined by Professor Robbert Dijkgraaf, a theoretical physicist and the President-elect of the International Science Council.
[00:32] Robbert Dijkgraaf
Hello.
[00:33] Izzie Clarke
And Baojing Gu from Zhejiang University, Professor of Environmental and Resource Management.
[00:38] Baojing Gu
Hello everyone.
[00:39] Izzie Clarke
Thank you both so much for joining me. Robbert, let’s start with you. You’ve spoken about how the scientific landscape is undergoing major change – that’s what this episode is about. So, from your perspective, what are the biggest shifts in scientific careers today, particularly for early- and mid-career researchers?
[00:59] Robbert Dijkgraaf
We are in a dramatic change in the whole academic enterprise. We see this acceleration of new technologies, of the larger community growing. But also the demands on the research community becomes much more intense. We want researchers not just to be excellent in doing research. We want them to work in interdisciplinary teams, we want them to connect to society, we want them to have policy advice. So, if you’re an early-career researcher, you might feel overwhelmed about how you are going to navigate that landscape if it’s changing so rapidly.
[01:44] Baojing Gu
Nowadays, we have fast transformation for the new technology, such as AI and big data. We need it to use in multiple languages from different research areas, and I think that’s the big challenge for the younger generations trying to understand the new global world and using more comprehensive angles.
[02:08] Izzie Clarke
And that fast transformation, these new technologies and that acceleration… yes, those are challenges but they’ll provide new opportunities, too. So, what would you advise early- and mid-career researchers who are facing that?
[02:22] Robbert Dijkgraaf
There are terrific opportunities, not only to do great work but to redesign the abstract academic building in which they are operating. There are really opportunities for the next generation to shift the way we do science, to think differently about career paths, think differently about teamwork. For many decades, we had a static research enterprise, and we’re now living in a time where we feel this is no longer the appropriate way to position ourselves. And we will be disappointing society, disappointing policymakers, we’ll be disappointing ourselves if we don’t also restructure the academic enterprise.
[03:10] Baojing Gu
Yes, I think we have the new challenges and the new opportunities. And especially we have big data. We have new technology, especially for AI. They are not only focusing in one area. Actually, it’s interdisciplinary. So, I think that is nowadays the innovation added by the new technology. We can actually solve more issues or more difficult issues for the younger generations. If you look into solving issues from very different angles, that can easily solve many very difficult questions. I think that’s also the chance for the younger generations.
[03:54] Izzie Clarke
And it opens up, I suppose, that accessibility and the communication as well. How can those early-career researchers feel empowered to start some of that change?
[04:07] Robbert Dijkgraaf
I think one of the great pleasures of being a scientist is that you’re part of a worldwide community. So, I’m a physicist and I talk to physicists around the world. If you talk about how you should shape careers, how you should change the way in which we collaborate, how you should structure the academic institutions, often that is a discussion you only have nationally. I will have the conversation in the Netherlands and Baojing will have the conversation in China, and these are separate conversations. But actually, they’re the same common issues because they are driven by big societal forces that affect science. So, the wonderful thing that ISC can do is to have these conversations. Facilitating conversations like this is empowering because many young people have terrific ideas. Part of the role of the ISC is to exchange these best practices.
[05:08] Baojing Gu
We have one world, one house. We need the world to work together, especially for climate-change issues. Each region has their own issues. And so, I think ISC has a platform that allows us to discuss with each other. That helps scientists to understand sustainability in different parts of the world. And finally, we unify as one world.
[05:34] Robbert Dijkgraaf
That’s a really important point that Baojing made. We cannot solve these big issues if we are not collaborating globally.
[05:43] Izzie Clarke
Yes, absolutely. But with that international collaboration comes travel, communications, and sometimes that can be difficult, especially if you are at the beginning or the middle of your career. So, Baojing, what challenges have you faced in international collaboration and how have you been able to adapt to that situation?
[06:05] Baojing Gu
I think at the very beginning, as an early-career researcher, whether you can find the resources to support you to do the international collaboration, whether you have time and resources to cover the cost, that’s quite important. Nowadays, we can connect online, but it works differently if you really go to meet people, talk to people. The ideas come from their smile. Or they’re angry. You can really understand people and different parts of the world through face-to-face communication.
[06:40] Izzie Clarke
Yeah, there’s no doubt that there’s something special about face-to-face communication. But that also relies on resources and that’s something to address – whether that’s funding, infrastructure or time – that affects scientists across the globe. So, what solutions or support structures do you think are the most effective for early- and mid-career researchers?
[07:03] Robbert Dijkgraaf
I think it’s very important to make this point that Baojing just made: it’s so important to have these face-to-face personal interactions. But in an early phase of your career, you don’t realize that these people you meet might travel with you your whole career, and these are really lifelong contacts that will pay off. So, I think it’s incredibly important that people who organize conferences, schools, events make sure that they have the means and the resources available to support young researchers from around the world, particularly the Global South, from areas where they are very restricted in resources. To achieve equity in science, it’s important that we do more for those who have less.
[07:56] Baojing Gu
Actually, I participated in several meetings held by ISC and they covered all my costs. I am very grateful for that, and that I could travel to Kuala Lumpur and to Oman. I think the place is important. I agree with Robbert that if we can have a meeting in Africa or in other regions short of resources, but bring other parts of the world there, it allows more people from that region to participate in such activities.
[08:33] Izzie Clarke
So, let’s look ahead to the future. What are the biggest trends that you both see in terms of scientific careers, and how can early- and mid-career researchers best prepare for them?
[08:45] Robbert Dijkgraaf
What I see happening is that the life of a scientist will be no longer one-dimensional. You can go to other fields, you can be active in public outreach, in communication. And, of course, the other big trend is that we look at the collective because all those demands that are on science, not a single person can do as a single individual. We have to do it collectively within our institutions, within our nations, and also in the global community. My biggest message to early-career scientists: feel free to explore that space. Keep that explorative attitude that you have in your research also for your own career, and find your own path in this vast space where you feel most at home.
[09:38] Baojing Gu
I’m thinking the future is maybe more creative for the younger generation with the help of AI, and we can do more creative jobs. And we may not only change science, but also the world – how people connect to each other, how people talk to each other. We build high-tech facilities for the younger generation, allowing them to really create new frameworks or things that can lead humankind to our next step. Another thing is critical thinking. When we read, whether we apply critical thinking, whether personally we do wrong or we can do better. And the third most important part is to see the world. We really need to go into the field, see the world, talk to citizens to understand their life, to understand the real world. And then we combine our critical thinking, readings and already known knowledge, and see if we can create new ideas for sustainability in the future.
[10:50] Izzie Clarke
That’s a great point, it’s about listening and paying attention to both your data, as well as the real world and who that research impacts.
[11:00] Robbert Dijkgraaf
I would also say listen to your inner voice. It’s a really complex world which you’re navigating, this vast ocean. But I think inside you, you have a little compass that tells you where your passion is, what perhaps the very beginning of an idea is. Make sure to listen to this little voice inside you, because that will guide you through the future.
[11:25] Izzie Clarke
Great advice. Thank you both so much for joining me today.
If you’re an early- or mid-career researcher and you want to be part of the global community that Baojing and Robbert mentioned, then join the International Science Council forum for emerging scientists.
Visit: council.science/forum
I’m Izzie Clarke, and next time we’ll be exploring the importance of careers within science policy. Until then.
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